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Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2011.10.21 07:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
 Ok some of you my or my not remeaber me from the level 5's in high sec debats.
I just would like to take this time to just ask one ?
Why did CCP bother taking level 5's out of high sec and then put Incursions in? Now dont get me wrong I love Incursions even more then I loved High sec level 5's. I fought hard to keep them.
It looks stupid to me at least to remove High sec level 5's in the face of High sec Incursions.
Now dont get me wrong here I no longer care about high sec level 5's and would not bother doing them. At least not with Incursions happening.
I'm just wondering how many other people think the remove of High sec level 5's in the face of handing us High sec Incursions that are even better then level 5's was kind of I dont know stupid? A needless effort? Looks something like No kid smoking tabbaco is bad for you here is a 10 ring hitter and some weed this is much better for you kind of deal? |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
3
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Posted - 2011.10.22 06:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jennifer Starling wrote:Akuma Tsukai wrote:XXSketchxx wrote:
the point is if you want "higher end content" you have to leave high sec. That's the way it works in Eve. Outside of high sec there is a lot more game content. You need only to leave high sec to access it.
considering that incursions ARE missions with greater reward ... Things looking sad so far. Theres barely any need to go low/0 sec anymore, unless ure explorer. Exactly. Incurisons are "higher end content" than L5s and on top of that don't even get standings loss as L5s are mostly faction missions as well. It's a bit like L4 and L6 missions are in highsec - but L5s are only in lowsec. What's the use?
It's the winning quote right there. That's what I was lacking the words for. It is alot like level 4's and level 6's are in high sec what's the point of level 5's in low sec only now. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
3
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Posted - 2011.10.22 06:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Desudes wrote:Cambarus wrote:One of these activities require teamwork, the other can easily be farmed in a single passive tanked rattler. I'd be interested to see solo rattler L5 ISK/hr; I do believe most people use at least 3 ships. With the dps it would put out it would be utter crap (if it were in a L4, I've never done L5) compared to incursions.
Your both right. Yes you can fully passive fit a level 5 with max skills in a Rattle Snake in high sec. But the down side is your killing so slowly that you would do just as well if not better running level 4's with a dps fit Gunnery ship just blowing down rats fast when it comes down to a isk per houre deal.
Or you could get 2-4 of your budys together and blow down some level 5's and as level 5's get spilt evenly to every one the isk/hr ratio falls some were in the middle of level 4's isk/hr and Incursions isk/hr. Only when you run it with some budys. When you solo level 5's then they come in isk/hr right around and sometimes lower then your avg level 4's. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
3
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Posted - 2011.11.03 05:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tippia wrote:If it weren't for the inherent PvPness of flying in lowsec, I'd say Gǣincursions are allowed because they're competitive, unlike missionsGǥ, with a sprinkling of the GǣGǪand they require coordination and co-operationGǥ as others have mentioned.
On a slightly more negative note, I'd say that they didn't quite plan for them to be the massive income generators they turnout out to be and/or expected most of the ISK to be sunk into (and counteracted by) the new LP stores. Plan, meet reality and all thatGǪ
Thats true too. But the stores would probly be more of a isk sink if they just dropped or removed tags and just upped the isk some. On the other hand what would the poor boys in FW do if they removed the demand for tags?
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Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
3
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Posted - 2011.11.03 05:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:Desudes wrote:Cambarus wrote:One of these activities require teamwork, the other can easily be farmed in a single passive tanked rattler. I'd be interested to see solo rattler L5 ISK/hr; I do believe most people use at least 3 ships. With the dps it would put out it would be utter crap (if it were in a L4, I've never done L5) compared to incursions. When I tried my hand at level 5s, I found the isk/hour to be higher than lvl 4s, maybe on-par with lower end incursion fleets, and that was with an ishtar. With 2 people I would imagine it would surpass incursion fleets of similar ships. Not that this is the only issue: There's no competition in lvl 5s, you've basically got your own instance and only the person who took the mission determines who gets paid for it. The rats act like mission rats, not like incursion rats. The AI difference, as well as the fact that only a handful of lvl 5 rats scram, whereas often multiple people will be scrammed for the entirety of an incursion site by a good third of the rats, is also a huge factor. Tanking is absurdly easy when the rats stay on the first person to warp in. The payout difference between lvl 4s and incursions isn't as absurd as people seem to think. A ship getting 100mil/hour in incursions would be making 60-70 in lvl 4s, so how tiny would the difference between lvl 4s and lvl 5s have to be in order to stop lvl 5s from being better for isk than incursions (especially since they can be easily soloed, require only one ship to do any tanking, barely have and scramblers and have no competition)?
I did level 5's the bountys are the same as the one's in level 4's and I doute that your isk/hr is any higher then level 4's right now do to the state that shop and shop iteams are in. As most of the rewards that make level 5's better then level 4's have little to do with the bountys and more to do with the LP's.
Secondly ishtar will run the sites omost as slowly as the Rattle Snake only saving some time where ship speed is a time saver reather then killing speed. Though I dont personly know how you got around the nuteing towers with the ishtar and keept it in one piece. Congrats on that one. But I bet I could make more in liquid isk per houre in a gunnry based bs running level 4's then you can in a drone based ship of any kind running level 5.
Last but not least level 5's are tied to only a few LP stores were as level 4's can be found for omost every npc corp and there stores and Incurrsions LP's well I'm not going there. 
Just saying. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
6
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Posted - 2011.11.05 07:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
But no realy look at it.
Level 5's are in a pvp area but they req you go all out on a pve fit in order to do them. If your going to mission in low sec your much much better off doing FW missions. There much better balanced to there pvp enviorment and the rewards are great as well.
I am just saying ether change the level 5 mission to be like FW missions are or just add them back into high sec again. Ether way it will make EVE a better place becouse the content will be used more.
I have never gotten my head around the ideal that limiting the use of mmo content is good for the game or its players. And yes the combind conditions of the level 5 mission enviorment and the low sec enviorment limits this content very much. As it results in ether a no win or at best I got away for the mission runnering ship/gang and a I-win or damn the lucky sob got away for the pirat ship/gang.
Me personly I just think it would be easyer to add them back into high sec becouse the mission enviorment is already set for high sec. As one thing few to no people care to say is that they totaly wreck your standing with other empires. That right there limits alot of level 4 mission grinders that dont want to pick sides.
I use to be like that not wanting to pick sides then I got to the skill level were I could run level 5's and so I picked a side and that lead to also running FW missions in low sec from time to time as well becouse hell my other empire standings are already screwed and the rewards for FW missions are just as good as level 5's and insanly easyer to do and insanly cheaper ships and fits to risk.
And in FW I have seen more then a few head out to null npc/null player and WH's. So FW is a gate way for pvp and this other areas just as intented.
And high sec level 5's can be a gate way to FW.
Just puting my two cents in on this along with some of the roads I have traveled in EVE and why I traveled them. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
6
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Posted - 2011.11.05 07:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
double post |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
7
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Posted - 2011.11.06 07:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
laysha wrote:Rip Minner wrote:
Thats true too. But the stores would probly be more of a isk sink if they just dropped or removed tags and just upped the isk some. On the other hand what would the poor boys in FW do if they removed the demand for tags?
I doubt anyone doing FW relies on tags for income, if they do then they're doing it wrong. On a good day when i used to do FW missions i would make anywhere from 200k to 280k in as little as 90 min relatively undisturbed (less before agent quality was removed but the value of LP items where higher then so it evened out) just blitzing them in a bomber. The money is in the LP not tags
Not trying to burst your bubble but most of the LP stores is tied to tages omost as much as to LP? Kind of need them tages too don't ya?
Edit: And yes I know some iteams dont need tags for them. But the overwelming majority of iteams do. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
10
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Posted - 2011.11.06 10:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
laysha wrote:Rip Minner wrote:laysha wrote:Rip Minner wrote:
Thats true too. But the stores would probly be more of a isk sink if they just dropped or removed tags and just upped the isk some. On the other hand what would the poor boys in FW do if they removed the demand for tags?
I doubt anyone doing FW relies on tags for income, if they do then they're doing it wrong. On a good day when i used to do FW missions i would make anywhere from 200k to 280k in as little as 90 min relatively undisturbed (less before agent quality was removed but the value of LP items where higher then so it evened out) just blitzing them in a bomber. The money is in the LP not tags Not trying to burst your bubble but most of the LP stores is tied to tages omost as much as to LP? Kind of need them tages too don't ya? Edit: And yes I know some iteams dont need tags for them. But the overwelming majority of iteams do. And i'm telling you the tags on the marked more then likely don't come from FW cause it's a complete waste of time trying to farm them with the LP payout on those missions. It's way easier, less risky and more profitable to just blitz, get the LP and buy the tags. In other words, the FW people will do just fine if you remove the demand for tags
Ya your right I see what your saying now. I do know some FW people that go after the tags to sale on the open market becouse there geting kind of high just right now too though. Or mybe your FW tags are not that high in price just at the moment ether. But ya I'm all for droping tages at least for using them for LP stores. Keep the tags and have a npc buy them or something.
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